EP. 2 Pt. 3 Historians-In The Beginning

The history of Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church and its numerous church movements within the city of Raleigh provide a story about repeated environmental racism and economic disenfranchisement.  It is also a story about the resulting response and actions taken by the Saint Ambrose church community.  In order to understand Saint Ambrose’s history, you have to review its history from the 1860s to present day.

Transcript

Wading Deep Podcast 

Historians 

SPEAKERS: 4 

Speaker 1 – Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church Speaker 2 – Ernest Dollar, Executive Director of City of Raleigh Museum 

Speaker 3 – The Reverend Dr. Brooks Graebner, Retired Rector of St. Matthews Episcopal Church, Hillsborough, North Carolina, Historiographer for Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina 

Speaker 4 – Dr. Earl Ijames, Archivist, Curator and Historical Preservation of North Carolina Museum of History, Farming Activist 

THIRD SEGMENT 

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Speaker 1 

This is Wading Deep, a podcast that explores the connection between environmental justice and race. 

I'm your host, Reverend Jemonde Taylor Rector at St. Ambrose Episcopal church, Raleigh, North Carolina, a congregation with a long history of challenging environmental racism 

I am honored to welcome today's guests who are renowned historians. Mr. Ernest Dollar is Executive Director of the City of Raleigh Museum. The Reverend Dr. Brooks Graebner is the retired Rector of historic St. Matthew's Episcopal Church, Hillsborough, North Carolina, as well as the historiographer for the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina and Dr. Earl Ijames is archivist curator, historic preservation, and I guess farming archivists that I learned recently. He's with the North Carolina Museum of History. Welcome, gentlemen. 

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Speaker 1 

The topic today is history surrounding Saint Ambrose using the congregation's three physical locations as time markers, smokey hollow from 1868 to 1900. The churches moved near the prince Hall district, Third Ward from 1900 to 1965. And the move to Rochester heights for 1965 to the present. And this conversation was centered on that third move to Rochester Heights in 1965. And Mr. Dollar, what was happening in Raleigh, in the years leading up to St. Ambrose’s second move, and the city designating Rochester heights as an intentional black community? 

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Speaker 3- Ernest Dollar 

2:11 

Well, yeah, this is the…the third move of the church comes at an incredibly interesting time in American history. It's the height of the Civil Rights Movement. There's lots of discussions on school desegregation, school integration, suburban sprawl, urban decay. So, by the time 65, there's been a great movement within Raleigh as… as a lot of resources to the black communities are starting to dry up. And that there's… there's a real desire to leave the city courts go to some of these suburban areas, suburban neighborhoods that are

popping up around the city. And certainly, we see the first time we see black construction, you see black designers, you see black developers, who build these specific places, almost like we saw after the Civil War places of their own. So, you see, like Rochester Heights pop up Biltmore Hills, Madonna Acres, and all of these other neighborhoods that offer African Americans a slice of that suburban dream without sort of the the grunge of downtown. So, the area around the church is largely abandoned. You see a lot of the area today where the church was, is completely decimated, still a vacant block almost. So, it's a real struggle for access to resources, and to try to find places of their own. And certainly, with the move to Rochester heights, puts the church in sort of a, an area that is…is endangered by flooding, it's a flood zone. So, it sort of follows this trend we've been talking about on the series about how African Americans are pushed to non-desirable areas or less desirable areas, just because of the way that the banking system is set up illegal codes of segregation, and a number of factors just push them to places that that were not meant to be settled in large numbers and big place. 

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Speaker 4- Dr. Earl Ijames 

4:18 

Well, one, one thing, too about that timeframe and was going on is and to what that point is the redlining that had been going on from the federal government in relation to city planning and resources. And the federally almost imposed segregation, where not only pushed African Americans and people of color out of those more desirable areas; wouldn't give them financing. But again, here in Raleigh, what happens is, is a man named John Winters starts a construction company and 1850s 1957. And, and actually begins to build these really modern postwar to suburban, attractive neighborhoods. That also, he has the possibility to help with financing help with, you know the resources. So, it creates new communities almost equitable, even though they're separate. And like you say it's more desirable, even though in a flood zones and those areas, then being in the more restrictive spaces in town. And so… so Raleigh, unlike many other communities, not only in the south, but throughout the nation, when redlining is going on. And these really desperate, mostly inner city, black communities are being left, you know, with…with the leftovers. Raleigh is moving forward into the 20th century of that time, with the latest as far as homebuilding and construction and financing and being able to create spaces and communities that are a notch above … you know, what…what was downtown, and like you say, lends itself, Ernest, toward almost an abandonment of those spaces. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

6:37 

Brooks, I wonder if you could speak a little bit about gradualism. I know you've done extensive research on gradualism in the church. Talk a little bit about that…that coincides a little bit ahead of this time, but certainly bridges this time period. 

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Speaker 2- Dr. Brooks Graebner 

6:57 

Yes. And if I would also like to talk a little bit about the leadership of Father Calloway in the life of the Diocese, absolutely. So, after Brown v Board of Education, the Diocese of North Carolina, like most southern diocese, were led by bishops, who, on the one hand, gave assent to the notion of equality, but at the same time suggested that the pace at which desegregation should occur should be set by the dominant white culture. And so that leads to the principles of gradualism. And first Bishop Kainic, and then his successor, Bishop Baker, we're both committed gradualists. And…and then as a result, by the time you get to the mid to late 1960s Episcopal Church is becoming deeply divided as much of society is over issues of justice and equity. And it's in that period of time, Father Calloway’s voice becomes increasingly important as…as within the life of our diocese, speaking to these larger issues of justice, and he begins to take

increasingly leadership roles in Raleigh but also in the diocese, and becomes an incredibly important voice, calling the church to a more robust engagement. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

8:58 

You're absolutely right, Brooks, the importance of Father Calloway cannot go overstated, understated. He certainly comes to Saint Ambrose in 1959. As a relatively young priest from Texas, and within six years, is able to get $100,000 loan to build a current edifice, Saint Ambrose in 1965, it's what we see in Saint Ambrose moving from the third ward to Rochester Heights, it's for the second time in our history, we physically move the black church closer to black people. We read the diocesan archives and Brooks has done extensive research on this the Journal of the Episcopal convention in 1901. Then Arch Deacon for Colored Works, said one of the greatest thing Saint Ambrose has done is in its short history to physically move the black church closer to black people. And that sense we picked up our edifice in Smokey Hollow and rolled that to Third Ward. So, we do it again. We did it again in 1965. And we moved to Rochester Heights, which is in the Walnut Creek Wetland. And we know that Walnut Creek in 1887 is where the city of Raleigh began pulling its freshwater supply. And it needed a place to dump the sewage. And so, it dumped sewage and Walnut Creek, the convention and belief during that times only took 50 feet of running water for sewage to be potable. Which sounds ridiculous to us now. Because if you pour sewage in a river and walk 50 feet and put a cup down, it's still going to smell like sewage. But that was a convention during that time. And so, for 70 years 1887-1957 the city of Raleigh dumped raw sewage and Walnut Creek. It also was a de facto dumping ground for garbage. And this is the area zoned for black people to live as I like to say, the city dump sewage, dump garbage and then they dumped negros. And because it's in Walnut Creek, which is prone to flooding. That's exactly what happened that many homes were flooded and literally lifted off their foundations because of the rising Creek. And it was the leadership of Father Calloway, who was a two-term city council member who reached out to Dr. Norman Camp, environmentalists and chemist who helped found partners for environmental justice. And as Father Calloway, because of his engagement at the city level, was able to make sure that Dr. Camp was appointed to Parks and Rec to do the work of rezoning. And so here we see in the modern day, what happened in the founding of the church, that 1868 newly emancipated African Americans and those free people of color, part of the General Assembly, putting forward the legislative act that makes granting the land in which Saint Ambrose found itself in 1868 possible. And then we have over 100 years later, Father Calloway, seat of power city council, tapping Dr. Camp, environmentalist, making sure he's on Parks and Recs. And we get the genesis of partners for environmental justice that still exists today. And just to show how power continues to flex in the fall of 2020, the one of the largest developers in the southeast, John Kane, proposed a 150-acre development straddling Walnut Creek, only 3000 feet up Walnut Creek from Saint Ambrose, a half mile upstream. And it was the community of Saint Ambrose, Partners for Environmental Justice and the new initiative Saint Ambrose started called One Wake that really took the developer John Kane to task and… and mandated in the rezoning requirement that green stormwater infrastructure had to be a part of the project, low impact development, that stormwater needed to remain on site, and even convinced the developer to start a $2.5 million grant… match grant matching fund at six points downstream from the development one of those being Saint Ambrose and Rochester Heights, that if the water level increase, it is the developer to mitigate flooding, and to mitigate rise in storm water. So, we see the history throughout the history of Saint Ambrose. This…this stream of action, proaction, environmentalism and response. 

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Speaker 3-Ernest Dollar

13:50 

I think it's a theme that runs through…through all of these podcasts it is it's a synthesis of divine inspiration and political action. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

14:07 

Yeah. When we talk about divine inspiration. Brooks knows this. Well, in the Episcopal Church, when we when we talk about sin, we typically think of sin being some grievance against God acting out against God going contrary to God. But we in the church believe that there are actually four directions of sin and four points of sin one which is obvious against God, the other is against another human being how we disrespect another human being. The third is against ourselves that we are not kind and we can sin against ourselves. And the fourth is against nature and creation. So, what we see about the divine inspiration. And I would argue divine action is that where people have sinned against the environment, in this case, Rochester Heights, the Walnut Creek Wetlands, it has been those residents who happen to be black people who worked for the reconciliation of human beings to the environment, that the City of Raleigh dumped sewage and garbage. And yet it is those black residents who are relegated to that undesirable location to live, who actually bring about the restoration of the creation that was not decimated by people who looked like black and brown folk. And we can we can see that theme run, not only in Raleigh, but all over the United States. And some would, and I would argue, even the world, but it's a very powerful narrative of, you know, divine inspiration and action of not simply staying within four walls and worshiping, but actually becoming engaged and bring what I call resurrection to all of the created order. 

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Speaker 3- Ernest Dollar 

16:01 

To follow up, there's a there's…there's a movement of a restorative history. These days that, you know, there is there's reconciliation through telling the past in order to shape the future. So, I think that this series, by shedding light on these issues that have been going on, for over 150 years, that it gives us a like Earl said early on, it's a beacon for freedom for the future, for us to follow and to…to restore what… what is going on wrong in the past or the future. So, it is through sharing these stories or shedding light on these issues that hopefully, you know, guides us into the light, into the future. 

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Speaker 4- Dr. Earl Ijames 

16:48 

Well, and the tag on to that artist, you know, this is a new winner for this is human rights. This is something that is all inclusive, and all on board. And going back to the timeframe that we're discussing during the modern Civil Rights era, the 50s and 60s. It was people like Father Calloway, as a white clergy member, and another person who comes to mind comes to mind here in Raleigh is the Reverend W. W. Finlator over at Pullen Memorial, here in Raleigh, who's a white Southern Baptists, who came…came to that church, also the 1950s, at the beginning of the Civil Rights Movement, and they put a stake down. And, and, and pretty much insisted on equality, practicing it and literally preaching it from the pulpit. And it

took, and it takes today. Like it took them those voices for racial equality that are black, white, and Indian all in the same concert in unison, to affect that change. And so again, here in Raleigh, you have this spirit, the spirit, the core of people in the clergy, from different churches and different worship places who are coming into the fold. And as Dr. Martin Luther King said, during the Montgomery march had, you know, the white photographer, Spider Martin, from the Birmingham newspaper, not come out and captured what happened to the people on the Edmund Pettus Bridge, during that first march, it would have just been the black people talking about it. And unfortunately, it would have been relegated to the same outcomes as so many other injustices. And so, the… the fact that here in Raleigh, you have again, these white clergy members at this time taking these bold and courageous stances for human rights and for civil rights. In Raleigh is it really falls into the play into the same spirit, the core that Raleigh is this place where there's an opportunity for freedom and equality, particularly in the south at that time. And even today, in our country. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

19:38 

I appreciate your comments. Brooks, Ernest and Earl. As we round out this segment, I just want to ask the question from people who look at the present… the present condition through the lens of history, what gives you hope? 

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Speaker 4- Dr. Earl Ijames 

20:05 

Well conversation like these are hopeful. And, you know, I guess to get into the secular a little bit, I've been kind of following President Barack Obama's and Bruce Springsteen's podcast and talking about, you know, our country in the current state. And…and Bruce Springsteen made, you know, a very simple yet accused observation and that is when our country, our nation, our communities, come to reconcile the history, learn from it, and build from it. We… we will be going in the same historical cycles. In other words, we won't, you know, accomplish that goal that you just mentioned. So, so we're… so we're going to need to, you know, to, to continue to walk in the courage and the pathway of the courage and as of courage, that you know, the Father Calloways, and, and the Dr. Kings and the Clarence Lightners. And…and, and, you know, folks here in Raleigh, Elizabeth Cofield and or W. W. Finlator and those folks who came from different race, racial, socioeconomic backgrounds with a common goal, and a common spirit of war, equality and freedom for all. 3 

Speaker 3- Ernest Dollar 

21:49 

Yeah, I think I'll tell you on what Farrell said is that, you know, America is still very much an experiment, it's a very long experiment, we are still trying to figure things out. And those founding fathers wrote the words that are inspiring, they may not have applied to everyone at the time, but it gave America a blueprint for a successful, prosperous country, with people who are dedicated to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, and they're all created equal. So, this is sort of the shining star to keep reaching for is that as we go through the ups and downs that we have been through these before, and my hope is that we can, can look back as we discussed the shared history, and, and take strength from our successes and learn from our mistakes, and keep striving for this, this lofty goal of this wonderful place where everyone is equal. 4 

Speaker 4- Dr. Earl Ijames 

22:51 

Forming a more perfect union, I think is what it's called, there you go,

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Speaker 3- Ernest Dollar 

There you go, brother. 

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Speaker 2- Dr. Brooks Graebner 

23:01 

And I think, speaking about restorative history. We've touched upon some important figures this afternoon, in this podcast. And one of the things that gives me hope is that it's not too late to tell the story of James Henry Harris, it's not too late to tell the story of Father James King, it's not too late to tell the story of Father Arthur Calloway. We can engage in a more capacious understanding of our history and…and point towards acts of bravery and commitment and social justice in the past, and…and build from there, build that more perfect union. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

24:00 

Thank you so much. I want to show gratitude to Mr. Ernest dollar, Executive Director of the City of Raleigh Museum, the Reverend Dr. Brooks Graebner, the retired Rector of historic St. Matthew's Episcopal Church, Hillsborough, North Carolina, and also historiographer for the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina. And Dr. Earl Ijames, archivist curator, historic preservation at the North Carolina Museum of History as well as a farmer, thank you for your knowledge and imparting that knowledge today. 

GROUP 

Welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Honor. Thank you. Yes. Hi, everyone. 

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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor 

The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we af ectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram. 

I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal. 

Shalom, Salaam, Peace.