Discussing the social and environmental changes that our communities of color and lower resource communities have been facing for decades. Awakening of consciousness that will help to reverse environmental racism and environmental injustices that are so prevalent in our nation and in our communities.
Discussing the social and environmental changes that our communities of color and lower resource communities have been facing for decades. Awakening of consciousness that will help to reverse environmental racism and environmental injustices that are so prevalent in our nation and in our communities.
Amin Davis - 3rd Segment
Wading Deep Podcast
Amin Davis, Partners for Environmental Justice (PEJ), Board Member
SPEAKERS: 2
Speaker 1–Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church
Speaker 2–Amin Davis, Partners For Environmental Justice (PEJ), Retired Board Member
1
Speaker 1
0:36
I am honored to welcome today's guest, Amin Davis, Partners for Environmental Justice PEJ . Board Member welcome Amin.
2
Speaker 2
1:00
Thank you, Chairman Taylor. I appreciate you reaching out to me and us having this conversation.
1
Speaker 1
1:06
We've had fabulous conversation. This is the third segment. We talked you talked about different development models, urban development models, particularly in Raleigh, how there's equitable development, then also revitalization without displacement. Talk about Southeast Raleigh Promise. I wonder if you can talk about your experience with Downtown South. Both you and I spent a lot of time with Downtown South really was Partners for Environmental Justice PEJ that led the way. One Wake an organization that Saint Ambrose started about three years ago also helped, but not as much as PEJ, talk about downtown south and maybe walk us through that development process as you saw it,
2
Speaker 2
2:01
Sir. Well, I'd heard you know that that development has been in the news for many years. The envisioning of a Major League Soccer Stadium in downtown Raleigh along with some supporting developments. So, but really, in terms of the how it moved forward, I became aware of it through a colleague with the Walnut Creek community partnership, who sent an email saying that there was going to be a community meeting regarding the rezoning for this downtown South project. So that's how PEJ first became aware of this. And we had a conversation with a gentleman who had helped arrange the meeting. And who was actually familiar with Southeast Raleigh was familiar with PE J. and just asked him, Well, why why weren't we notified of this meeting? And he, he apologized for not letting us know, and all of that. And we sat in on some of the one of the early community meetings about this. So as a process, you know, we engage with the developers, Kane Realty we engage with City of Raleigh Planning Department and the Planning Commission. We sat in on many, many of the meetings and it became aware particularly in the Planning Commission, that the developers were not doing a good job with community engagement. They were doing it by the letter of the law. In terms of notifying residents. I'm not sure whether it was 500 feet from the proposed project side or what it was, but it's a relatively small distance. And obviously, with the proposed development of this size being the largest proposed development in the City of Raleigh's history, you would need more community engagement than just that limited area around this proposed development near Interstate 40. And South Saunders street. So is that played out? Particularly even in the planning commission meetings? It was it was obvious that even many of the planning commissioners were frustrated with the lack of engagement with the community with community organizations. And also with it seemed as though there was the developer was not doing an adequate job of reaching out. And then even the online meetings, we were meeting during COVID, which is understandable. However, the meetings were controlled to where it didn't seem like a true public meeting, because the developers were controlling the Zoom process in which people could not speak freely. The questions were monitored, and it just did not. It couldn't be really considered a public meeting. So as a process played out, you know, we advocated as far as we pEJ, we advocated for that. The developers integrate above and beyond stormwater management, to further to reduce the amount of flooding downstream because Rochester heights, Saint Ambrose church where you where you shepherd is literally it was less than a mile downstream of this proposed site along Walnut Creek, much of the development was going to occur right around Walnut Creek, and with the development of this size, and you know, with your involvement with the Raleigh Stormwater Management Advisory Commission, that when you build, when you develop on currently undeveloped lands, you're going to automatically increase the runoff, stormwater runoff off the lands, and generally that's piped directly in the streams. And that's why you have more water. That's why you have downstream flooding. And that's why you have more erosion and degradation of water quality. So that was our primary advocacy was that they go up, they put above and beyond stormwater conditions in there as a rezoning condition for this project. We also were supportive of some of the other non environmental elements such as affordable affordable housing, such as the inclusion of minority business enterprises, as part of the development because its development is going to obviously have not just the entertainment or soccer stadium, but housing, retail, and, and so on and so forth. So the planning commission, you know, we know that they voted unanimous, unanimous unanimously to oppose this, the rezoning of this project. And the City Council voted unanimously in favor of, of this project. So the what the outcome of it in terms of what was put in the rezoning conditions. We, we were happy that the developer did put above and beyond stormwater management provisions into as a rezoning condition. In addition to being willing to establish funds that will go towards matching grant funds to do stormwater and watershed improvement projects not only at the proposed site, but anywhere within the Walnut Creek watershed, which begins inCary near Cary Town Center and flows through NC State, southeast Raleigh and eventually into the Neuse. River. So that we were definitely pleased with with that provision, we had hoped that there would be more community benefits that would be incorporated as rezoning conditions that some of our community partners advocated for. And those community benefits would ensure that things like acceptable affordable housing, provisions, minority and basically community benefits that the community would want and felt strongly about that they voiced during the rezoning process would be made a part of the rezoning conditions. Unfortunately, those weren't made a part of the rezoning conditions. Hopefully, they can still be become a reality as the as this development moves forward over the course of the next 15 to 20 years.
1
Speaker 1
9:18
Appreciate your running through that. I think it was you who invited me to the initial meeting, I think that was August of 2020. And I remember sitting in that Zoom meeting, again, I knew you were in that meeting because you sent me the invite, but the attendance list was not made public. We were not able to ask questions Kane Realty presented I remember sitting in that meeting, thinking we are going to we being Saint Ambrose are gonna get flooded. Rochester Heights is going to get flooded and I thought that for the third time in our over 150 year history, Saint Ambrose will have to move again by forces that we have no control over and I remember reaching out to you and having conversation and what bothered me so much was that in the rezoning request in September of 2020, it said that there there is no stormwater impact from this development, which was ludicrous. I'm just going to go through some of the numbers for downtown south, about 145-150 acres there at South Saunders street and I-40 38 million square feet of new development. downtown Raleigh has 32 million square feet. So downtown South was larger than downtown Raleigh was only three quarters of a mile upstream from Walnut Creek on St. Ambrose. That that size is half the size of the North Carolina State Fairgrounds. That would have hotel rooms equivalent to three downtown Marriott Hotels, 1200 hotel rooms, a stadium the size of the PNC arena 20,000 seats, twice the residential units and North Hills Mall 1750 units and nearly double the office space at North Hills malls 1.7 million square feet of office space and an increase of 6.8 million gallons per day of waste water increase from this development. 80 acres of the proposed site was is wooded, so you want to raise that area. And yet in the rezoning in September, no stormwater impact for development that straddles Walnut Creek and so through community organizing, and pushing and partnering with the city and the Planning Commission and stormwater. When the final vote was cast by the city council, that rezoning request had over1,500 words dedicated to Stormwater and a separate, legally binding document around a stakeholder fund which you now are chair of that stakeholder fun with two and a half million dollars grant matching, which means you have a capacity for $5 million of all that is matched at six flood prone areas off site. Still, when I talk to city officials today and those around the country, they cannot think of an example of a project that has gone this way, is one example of a partnership that started in a place that was not good, and ended in a better place won't say ended in a good place because we wanted workforce development, affordable housing. We didn't get those, but ended in a better place, particularly around stormwater. And I'm just grateful for PEJ and pushing that that effort forward.
2
Speaker 2
13:01
Yeah, well, it was, you know, again, we give the developers you know, credit for being willing to incorporate that even though from our perspective, and if you look at the history of, you know, not just the past history, but even the current history of flooding along Walnut Creek, particularly their their communities downstream of along Walnut Creek downstream of Rochester heights, it's a station road and Rose lane that currently are more flood prone and have more issues and Rochester Heights currently does. But regardless of that, you know, it seemed to be a no brainer that these types of provisions should be put into a rezoning condition of this nature. And, you know, we're hope, you know, it's hopeful that city and their development review process there can be, you know, more consideration or more attention given to developments and how they can impact stormwater, particularly in the Walnut Creek watershed. There are other watershed flood prone watersheds and the city you know Crabtree Creek is definitely one that we all think of, and, you know, an example of a type of development that, you know, shouldn't happen and you know, definitely give the city credit for passing legislation that is going to limit development and floodplain areas. So, you know, hopefully, this example and this partnership that you know, took, took, took a lot of investment in partners to make happen, can be can be replicated in future, small or large developments in the city of Raleigh and beyond.
1
Speaker 1
14:57
Yeah, you talked about the planning commission. I voted unanimously to reject a rezoning request. And in the city council, there was only one dissenting vote but the other council members voting in agreement to go against the will of the experts, the planning commission voted to pass this rezoning. I spoke to the historian for the City of Raleigh. And he said it had been either 10 or 15 years since an event like that had happened, where a unanimous vote from a commission was ignored and overturned by the city council that went in a different direction. But you're right, the I think not I think downtown south has changed the narrative. As it comes to development, and even the Walnut Creek stakeholder fund, which I briefly mentioned, that was formed as part of his community benefit agreement where you are the president or chair, so from Kane Realty is the co chair, and I serve as treasurer, that that fun is a model and even in city council meetings, I've heard City Councillors say we know this fund exists, perhaps a developer can either designate to this fund, or form their own fund to address flooding. And I think that's a move in the right direction.
2
Speaker 2
16:31
Yeah, I would, I would agree with that. Because, you know, again, these issues come up. And, you know, downtown South is not the only development is probably the biggest in the city of Raleigh, but there are many other developments that are happening near or literally, adjacent to Walnut Creek or other flood sensitive areas that could, you know, increase flooding to flood sensitive areas. So, yeah, hopefully this this model can, you know, can, again can be replicated time will tell, because this is a, you know, this is a 15 to 20 year process with this downtown South development. So, you know, time will tell whether it it did achieve its intended purpose. But I think, as you said, even bringing more attention to this issue among, you know, the different city stakeholders, whether it be the, you know, CityCouncil, Planning Commission, and even just the community being more aware of the, you know, these the these issues. So, in the stakeholder group, you know, we feel good that the stakeholder group, there are folks from the, there are community members that are a part of the stakeholder group so that the decision making process and how these funds are used, will have community input. And it won't be it won't be essentially mandated by either Kane or PEJ, what, how these funds are used, because they're really designated to benefit, particularly the flood sensitive communities.
1
Speaker 1
18:10
One of the things I often talk about is non climate stressors as it relates to flooding. And I know you've done tremendous research around the Walnut Creek watershed. We know climate change exists. We do not deny that and we know that non climate stressors like development upstream, impact the watershed. I know you formed the Walnut Creek Watershed Action Team stakeholders. Can you talk a little bit about that group and the work that's done?
2
Speaker 2
18:40
Sure. Yeah, we began meeting in late 2017. And the meeting started with just folks from the town of Cary, city of Raleigh, Wake County and NC State University sense in terms of land holdings, and I guess, influence and leadership, those were kind of the core stakeholders. So the the intent and mission of that group is to try to collaborate efforts of education, engagement and the implementation of watershed improvement projects to improve conditions within the Walnut Creek watershed, not just environmentally but socially and economically, through efforts such as watershed improvement projects and advocacy and education so that the residents, particularly those that are in these flood sensitive communities can become aware of these issues and begin to advocate for their interests, particularly when developments and things may come to that may adversely impact their communities and neighborhoods. So we've an exciting development is that we have applied to the Environmental Protection Agency to be designated as the nation's 21st, what's called Urban Waters, federal partner location. So the EPA has a program that provides resources and also provides a framework to hire a full time what's called community watershed ambassador to essentially serve as a liaison between the government partners who have been meeting the nonprofit organizations and the community to essentially take the efforts of theWatershed Action Team, which we call the Wat, and move those efforts forward in a, in a, in a better in a better way. Because essentially the Wat, which is comprised of government folks, the Division of Water Resources, that there's nobody that essentially can focus on these issues full time, this urban waters partnership, federal partnership would provide the community watershed ambassador that would can dedicate more time to move these efforts forward, and also to engage the community more, and that the community, that community members can be come a vital part of this partnership, the primary goal of the partnership, EPA, Urban Waters federal partnership, is to connect underserved areas throughout the United States, with their water with their waterways, the waterway here being Walnut Creek, but also to help improve conditions and do watershed improvements and advocate for things like green stormwater infrastructure, which goes above and beyond the current the the current stormwater management guidelines to help improve conditions and the Walnut Creek watershed. So we hope to hear from EPA in the next month or so, about this. And as this moves forward, that's definitely going to help amplify and energize the watts. efforts, incremental efforts we've been trying to make since 2017.
1
Speaker 1
22:19
I think that's fantastic. And we certainly pray to that comes through.
2
Speaker 2
22:26
Thank you, yes, please continue to send up prayers. And, you know, we hope it will provide. And we know, we're confident that if this partner if we're designated that this partnership can provide some tangible benefits and improvements to residents and communities within the Walnut Creek watershed.
22:50
What gives you hope?
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Speaker 2
22:53
I think the current focus in our society on these social justice efforts environmental, environmental justice, this is part of that. You know, again, like with many things time will tell and the devil is in the details in terms of if this kind of awakening and consciousness, if it lasts, and if it will help to reverse environmental racism and environmental justice in justices that are so prevalent in our, in our nation and in our communities. So I'm hopeful that there's an awakened consciousness of, of this. And, you know, I hope to continue and I hope we and our community partners will continue to advocate for these, these these policies and programs that are going to hopefully reverse a lot of the social and environmental changes that our communities of color and lower resource communities have been facing for decades.
1
Speaker 1
24:03
Thank you so much, Amin, I an always inspired by your work, feel like you are able to do in 24 hours, what others can do in 72. So I guess for you, you have 72 hour days, because you were pulled in so many areas. You certainly are treasure for the City of Raleigh, and the larger community. So thank you for taking time to tell your story and share with us.
2
Speaker 2
24:30
Again, I appreciate you having me Reverend Taylor, appreciate your your leadership and your you know how you're advocating for the community how you're advocating for environmental justice, in RochesterHeights and southeast Raleigh and even beyond. So I appreciate you as well.
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Speaker 1
25:00
The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we affectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram.
I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal.
Shalom, Salaam, Peace