Discussing the social and environmental changes that our communities of color and lower resource communities have been facing for decades. Awakening of consciousness that will help to reverse environmental racism and environmental injustices that are so prevalent in our nation and in our communities.
Discussing the social and environmental changes that our communities of color and lower resource communities have been facing for decades. Awakening of consciousness that will help to reverse environmental racism and environmental injustices that are so prevalent in our nation and in our communities.
Amin Davis - 2nd segment
Wading Deep Podcast
Amin Davis, Partners for Environmental Justice (PEJ), Board Member
SPEAKERS: 2
Speaker 1–Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church
Speaker 2–Amin Davis, Partners For Environmental Justice (PEJ), Retired Board Member
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Speaker 1
I am honored to welcome today's guest, Amin Davis, Partners for Environmental Justice PEJ . Board Member welcome Amin.
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Speaker 2
0:59
Thanks for having Taylor. It's good to be speaking with you. And I appreciate you reaching out to me.
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Speaker 1
1:07
I want to talk a little bit about development. You mentioned in the last segment, that there are many development models. All development does not have to produce or be a catalyst for gentrification. You spoke about southeast Raleigh promise revitalization through this revitalization without displacement spoke about equitable development. I know a few months ago, you and I had a couple of email exchanges on Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design called CPTED. How the City of Raleigh is sinking millions of dollars into CPTED as a way of preventing crime. I think that's a bad idea. Curious, your thoughts on that. But can you speak about more about these development models? And equitable development?
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Speaker 2
2:02
Yeah, development as it relates to Raleigh, right? Because they're different, you know, as relates to Raleigh. Yep. Sure, yeah. Because, you know, depending on where you are, urban, suburban, rural, it's, it's different. And there's still environmental justices and injustices and all of those spaces. But as it relates to Raleigh, you know, again, there's lots of folks are moving to this area. Raleigh has been in the triangle area, in general has been one of the, you know, designated as one of the best places to live and move to for years and years, even 20 years ago, when I moved to this area, 20-25 years. So. But also, there's, there's been a move, particularly with the younger single professionals who are coming into the workforce, that and that the, essentially, the more mobile, the ones who were more, more well educated and have had better opportunities, they're desiring to live in urban areas, and this is not just going on in the Raleigh area, but it's going on and other areas throughout the country. So with that, there's, there's this pressure to, to develop in a way that's going to attract more upper what we call in our society, more upwardly mobile people, to the to these downtown, urban metropolitan areas. And it's interesting, when you look at the history of redlining, in our communities, it seems like gentrification is almost like reverse redlining or it's one in the same, it's like gentrification seems to be the the newer, the newer, I guess, approach to developing areas, which also impacts communities of color and lower income communities. Historically, of course, redlining was where communities of color were, essentially funds and resources were divested, or were advised not to be put into these areas. And there were these red lines that were put on these historic maps that show these areas. So these were areas of disinvestment where predominantly African Americans lived. Fast forward to today you have gentrification, which is now with their with this development, boom. We want you know, we're these areas because they were they're relatively less than I'm relatively cheaper as far as land acquisition. So a developer can come in purchase properties put up these more expensive homes and business that are tied to businesses that are more upscale that the, you know, a person who does not have the financial means can not shop at or do business at So long story short, with the housing boom coupled with building developing communities and businesses that cater to more economically privileged people, the property values in these former under resource areas go up, the people that used to live there are driven out, and the people who can afford these areas come in. So that's what the you know, that pattern is playing itself out in southeast Raleigh and other parts of Raleigh and in other metropolitan areas. And it's, it's just ironic how, you know, different approaches and patterns lead to the same outcome, which is the displacement of communities of color, not just their displacement, but also the displacement of their culture. Also, the displacement of their contributions are lost. And it it's, it's just challenging and frustrating to see that pattern play out, you know, in different parts of the country, but particularly, you're seeing it play out in Raleigh and in southeast Raleigh.
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Speaker 1
6:49
Appreciate your framing this around intention and that development, as we see it in Raleigh, in many urban areas around the United States. It is slanted or targeted toward upwardly mobile people to place people in the Center City Center are in close proximity with restaurants and entertainment. And the development is not designed for the people who currently live there. Those folks are not upwardly mobile people. And so one of the benefits of equitable development, as you said earlier, is that you can revitalize without displacing and the Southeast Raleigh YMCA the elementary school there, the affordable housing Beacon Hill, that's an example of revitalizing without displacing.
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Speaker 2
7:45
Exactly, yeah. And it it also what, that, that that approach needs to be intentional, right, because it's not, it's not just going to happen. You know, I had an opportunity to speak with the executive director of the Southeast Raleigh YMCA a couple of years ago. And to kind of get the background of how this place came to be, you know, and it didn't just happen, you know, took many years of advocacy, difficult conversations, and fundraising to to make that happen. So there's a there's a huge story and how the beacon, the beacon site came to be. But again, it's not going to happen if it's not advocated for, it's not going to happen if the difficult conversations aren't had. And it obviously takes financial resources to make something like that happen. Now, that's not to say that there's you know, that that model can be duplicated in every square inch of Raleigh, but some of those same principles of equitable development where, you know, it's an approach that went over development is a an approach to essentially, in my mind, reversing things past environmental injustice is, like you said, for the goal of meeting the needs of the of underserved communities, and that these policies and programs need to, you know, be intentional in serving that goal, because a lot of the current policies of the current development framework, the way plans are reviewed, even the way with with stormwater, for instance, that is a huge problem in Walnut Creek. It's not theirs, these issues are not intentionally addressed unless they're strongly advocated for.
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Speaker 1
9:43
No, you're absolutely right. I mentioned at the top of the segment about CPTED, which is Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design. You're obviously an environmental expert. I'm wondering if you have any opinion or comment on incepted
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Speaker 2
10:02
to be honest with you, I'd probably I've not really dug into that issue, if you gave me some context, in terms of what the environmental design that's being proposed, I could probably give you some input on on that, from, from my perspective, can you kind of give me kind of the boil down the core of this approach?
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Speaker 1
10:23
A part of the approach is that crime, you can prevent crime, Through Environmental Design, more visible spaces, more open spaces, more lighting, better line of sight for police professionals. In my read of this, of course, I'm not an environmentalist. In my read of it, it is taking away it, it is actually weaponizing the environment in places of high crime, which by and large, tend to be black and brown communities. And there are a number of reasons for that. Jobs, redlining, affordability, and so to take a park, but say we would take the Walnut Creek wetland Park to take Walnut Creek Park or any park Chavis Park and constructed in such a way that there is visibility at all angles, in my mind means that you have little tree coverage canopy. So that's that's, that's going to increase your heat index, which is already high in black and brown communities, it's going to decrease the beauty of the place because you do not have shrubs and as many flowers because you need to be able to see. And you're going to have more artificial lighting, so tall light poles that are casting light in the park, or you know, all hours of nights that aids and light pollution, which means you now cannot see the canopy of the sky. Again, this is my reading of the material. And what's concerning to me that the city of Raleigh, if you look at their strategic plan for things is 2024 2025. This was actually listed as the number one tool to increase public safety for the City of Raleigh. Which I just find unbelievable. So, again, there are many opinions on CPTED. But you just heard my opinion on it.
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Speaker 2
12:44
Yeah. Well, I'd say based on some of the elements that you you mentioned, yeah, there are definitely some adverse, even environmental impacts. I deal with this in my day job being a grant manager where we fund projects, a lot of the projects we fund are in parks throughout the state. And they're, you know, certain local governments that want their park to look very well manicured. Right. And that that can be well and good in some ways. But it does take away the environmental benefits that like you mentioned, the vegetation, you know, it helps with to help mediate the air quality, you know, when you have trees and shrubs pumping out oxygen, instead of concrete that's holding in heat during the summer and releasing it at night and keeping these urban areas more, the temperatures lot higher. You also have less environmental resilience, the less vegetation you have. So when the storms come that are more becoming more frequent and more intense, because of you know, our climate is changing, then that also would not, you know, you're kind of taking away the environmental resiliency of the spaces, but also because the spaces because of their built in environmental resiliency, they're going to help the people that live there to be more resilient against some of these more intense and frequent storms. So when the natural environment is manicured, for human purposes, per se, it can add honestly do more harm than good and taking away the benefits that the environmental elements in these spaces provide. You know, they don't just provide environmental benefits they can provide social benefits for like you said, you know, when you have more vegetation, we can have more gathering spaces for people and it can be the temperatures can be cooler there. You talk about the economic benefits Um, nature provides us economic benefits when you have less flooding, or you have less damage, because of the environmental resiliency that is built into these natural places, and you try to reduce that, then you're going to you, you can incur more economic costs due to cleanups due to flooding due to other aspects, and just the public and mental health aspects that these natural spaces can provide. You know, I would say a golf course. And if you're into golf, no hatred towards the golfers, but a golf course, I mean, it's nice, but it's very well manicured. Versus a nice park that has greenways, and trails and more natural areas that are less manicured. Well, you know, what can probably provide more benefits and just enjoyment to a person, particularly in urban, you know, in urban spaces where green spaces are a very important components of health and wellness. As I'm sure we know that COVID brought that to light in terms of when people were, you know, when our houses, the these natural spaces became refuges to deal with COVID and to deal with isolation. And so, I guess what I would, in summary, I would echo some of the concerns you raised in terms of this approach to policing and crime in crime.
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Speaker 1
16:38
Yeah, you know, you spoke about golf courses as someone who sits on smack and I'm chair of SMAC Stormwater Management Advisory Commission. When we look at the role of golf courses in water runoff, yes, a golf course, is green, and grass, but it's designed in a way to make the ball move quickly. And so it allows water to move quickly. So it almost acts like an impervious surface. Because in the rain event, water runs off a golf course, more quickly than in a natural area. So even as you talked about, you know, golf courses, yes, it's green space, but you can't treat it as green space only because of how it's designed.
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Speaker 2
17:27
Right. And additionally, there are a lot more chemicals, as far as herbicides that are used in on golf courses, so the water quality will be much poor, add nutrients into the streams, which make their way into the larger rivers. And that's one of the reason why the state is put into effect these nutrient management strategies and Neuse, the Neuse Management Strategy that includes buffer rules and others throughout the state are put in place to address the fact that these excess nutrients are put into the water quality. And people will say, Well, why is that an issue? Well, that's an issue for instance, Falls Lake that's where the city of Raleigh gets its water from there, they have a nutrient management strategy in place to address the fact that Fall's Lake and Jordan Lake as well have excess nutrients in them. And those nutrients essentially allow for the growth of excess algae, which essentially when the algae die, the the oxygen is taken out of the water. So that's where you lead you, you can get fish kills and other things, but also cost more money to treat dirty water. So that's just that's that's another example like you said of the environmental design of certain places that is may not be beneficial to the surrounding air and water quality.
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Speaker 1
19:06
The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we affectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram.
I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal.
Shalom, Salaam, Peace