Rochester Heights Community members, environmental activist, and business owner discuss the impact of the environmental issues involving Walnut Creek wetlands and real estate development.
Rochester Heights Community members, environmental activist, and business owner discuss the impact of the environmental issues involving Walnut Creek wetlands and real estate development.
Wading Deep Podcast
Rochester Heights – First Segment
SPEAKERS: 6
Speaker 1 - Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church Speaker 2 - Ajuba Joy, Rochester Heights Resident, Elementary School Teacher, Community Organizer
Speaker 3 - Julia Daniels, Long-Term Rochester Heights Resident, Preschool Teacher, US Army (Retired)
Speaker 4 - Carolyn Winters, Co-Founder and Current Treasurer of Partners For Environmental Justice (PEJ)
Speaker 5 - Reverend Don Singletary, Minister of Mount Peace Baptist Church, Community Engagement Coordinatorof Partners For Environmental Justice (PEJ), Owner of Singletary Barber Shop
Speaker 6 - Carmen Cauthen, Local Historian / Business Consultant and Founder of Research and Resource
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Speaker 1-Jemonde Taylor
0:02
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Speaker 1-Jemonde Taylor
This is Wading Deep, a podcast that explores the connection between environmental justice and race.
I'm your host, Reverend Jemonde Taylor Rector at St. Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina, a congregation with a long history of challenging environmental racism.
I am honored today to welcome as guest local community activists and residents of Rochester Heights. We welcome Sister Ajuba Joy, Rochester Heights resident / elementary school teacher and also a community activist; Miss Julia Daniels a long term Rochester Heights resident / preschool teacher / US Army officer and community organizer; Miss Carolyn Winters, one of the founders and current Treasurer of Partners For Environmental Justice (PEJ); Miss Carmen Cauthen, local historian/ researcher / Founder of success, and Reverend Don Singletary, Minister at Mount Peace Baptist Church/ Business owner / Outstanding barber / Community Engagement Coordinator for Partners For Environmental Justice, welcome each one of you.
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GROUP
1:43
Speaker 1 – 6
Thank you so much. Thank you.
1:46
Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1-Reverend Jemonde Taylor
1:48
I want to begin by talking about flooding. Those of you who live in Rochester Heights and are familiar with it, know that flooding is a problem. Those of you who have experienced flooding or know it firsthand, I just open the floor for you to share your experience about life in Rochester Heights and flooding.
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Speaker 2-Ajuba Joy
2:16
I will go - many years before I actually moved into the community, I lived in Rochester Heights since 1986. And prior to that, I remember coming down Garner Road, right there by this little bridge. It would… it would flood and you'd have to kind of drive there…drive through there very, very carefully. I had no consciousness of what was going on within the community at the time because prior to that I wasn't… I wasn't living there. But in 1996 Fran came through and it was …it was …it was devastating. I’m right there near Garner Road and the water was coming west to east and people who lived with their homes facing west to east, the front just got demolished. I mean, things were just …water it was …up…water was up in my yard, close to…close to three feet of water. And I had never seen anything like that before. And many people lost their homes, others may want to share some other things and I can come back in and share what happened with some of my neighbors. 1
Speaker 1-Reverend Jemonde Taylor
4:00
Sister Joy, just before someone else jumps in you. It's interesting you say that the homes facing west to east were flooded. Why is that? Why those homes facing west east?
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Speaker 2-Ajuba Joy
4:13
That's the way… I think that there were two things going on. There were some areas upstream and they opened up gates trying to leave some of the waters from other communities upstream and water came down. And people whose homes were facing west. Those homes got really flooded. I mean really flooded. As a matter of fact, those homes don't even exist anymore. There's one home on the corner that exists and the front of their home was not facing the West. The side of the home is facing the West. So, the water came down and just demolished the homes of the other people who were facing west. Their front door was facing west. And so, the water came into their homes with no mercy. And those homes were demolished. They're gone, the humanity was gone, the families were
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gone. And these were elders in our community. And then there was another home was the other side that sat low. And that house also eventually was removed. And these investors, they were elders in our community. And this is devastating. And I woke up to this because I… I did not know, literally woke up and there was, you know, all of the water and the flooding. I had never seen anything like this before. But my house faced my house was facing north south. So, the waters came in front of my home, but it didn't come to my home. The water did rise, but it didn't, you know, rush to my home because it was going east west. The water was moving east west. So, it was …it was quite an eye opening. I had no… I've never experienced anything like this before.
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Speaker 1-Reverend Jemonde Taylor
6:41
Wow, thank you Miss Joy for that. I'd never heard that story or the difference between north south east west facing. Unbelievable. I think Miss Julia was about to speak. We're about to say something Miss Daniels.
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Speaker 3-Julia Daniels
6:57
Yeah, I was just gonna say that. By the grace of God, I did not experience any flooding. I only had some water that came up on the street that runs beside my home, which is Charles Street. The water…I watched the water rise. The creek is two houses from where I live. So, I saw the water. I was up during the middle of this storm. I watched the water literally come up out of the creek. And I don't know how in the world this happened. But instead of it going towards the left, the water came towards the right, which means it came up Calloway Drive towards my home, turned and went down Charles Street. And every home almost on Charles Street behind me, except maybe 1,2,3,4 homes were flooded with some kind of water, not only in their yards, but some in their homes. And people were taken out in boats. They had to go rescue people out of their homes. I luckily only had water to come up in my yard, maybe about a few inches, but my house, it tapers… the land tapers off to towards Charles Street. So, it's kind of raised a little so I didn't have any flooding. And the other thing is really weird that struck me about the storm was the City of Raleigh, period had so many people without water and electricity. And for Rochester Heights to have the flooding that we had. For some reason. I never lost power and I never lost water. I had people from other places in the city that actually came to our home, to get meals and to bathe because we didn't have…they didn't have power and they didn't have water for weeks…it was crazy.
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Speaker 2-Ajuba Joy
I'm agreeing with you. I didn't lose. I didn't lose power. And my two neighbors on the left and the right of me did not lose power. But the water did come into the yard but none of the water ever came in to our home. They came into the homes that were facing east west.
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Speaker 3-Julia Daniels
Yeah, Charles Street got it bad. They really…it was really bad. And I can't even imagine what the people on Bailey Drive, did around…closer to the creek… but to watch that creek rise, to see that
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water coming towards your home was very, very scary and terrifying. Because I did not know that it was gonna go down Charles Street, I did not know if it was going to come in my yard. And it was scary. And I was watching stuff flying. And it was it was a scary experience… it was something I never want to have to experience again. And it's just concerning to me, the…all of the new construction that's going to be going on that is gonna possibly cause something like that to happen again, and it's terrifying.
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Speaker 2-Ajuba Joy
And let me just add to what you're saying. And those and they're definitely people that know more about this than I do. This is Miss Joy. There are homes and communities lower than us, like Rose Lane and out in that area continue to flood to this day. And they are lower, you know, in elevation
than we are. So, it continues to flood and I …I had… I used to watch the…there's a little church down in the cul de sac on Waller and Bailey Drive and I can't think of the name of the church. But this particular area right there, I always would watch for the water when I knew that they were supposed to be a storm. And that was my warning to know whether I needed to get in my car and go up towards the Biltmore Hills or not.
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Speaker 3-Julia Daniels
11:46
And you know what? I'm gonna tell you what is also strange to me, when FEMA came through and did their stuff to determine what had to be torn down, who couldn't go back in their homes. The businesses remain and they were completely flooded. And the church remain. But all of the homes beside that church that you are speaking up were torn down except for the one on the corner. They were they were not allowed to stay in their homes. They were not allowed to. Even if they wanted to. They will not allow it was like… no, but I don't understand why the businesses were allowed to stay and the church.
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Speaker 1-Reverend Jemonde Taylor
12:36
This is so… so fascinating. Miss Carolyn, I think you have something to say. And then Reverend Singletary. I know you are a business owner, of a barbershop on Garner Road… Miss Winters. 4
Speaker 4-Carolyn Winters
12:48
Okay, I was just gonna say that part of that. Of course, I wasn't there. But shortly thereafter we got involved, PEJ got involved, by way Father Calloway establishing a committee to actually look into the flooding. Because we had church members that came and said, you know, we're tired of getting
flooded. And this was just really awful. PEJ actually did some footwork to look into why the flooding was there. And some of it, not all of it, but some of it was because of the Walnut Creek had had so much trash etc., and silk washed downstream that its banks were just evolving. And so Walnut Creek flooded as well. But you know, there are a couple of tributaries that come off of that. And that's what you flooded from was the creek. That is what you flooded from, Julia, that turns off of
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Walnut Creek. So yeah, interesting that we, as Saint Ambrose seemed to be downhill from that, but we never flooded either. So that was a situation that we saw from afar. We didn't really experience it, because of course, we weren't there. But we saw it. And we got involved, because of just that - we did have the community and we had the church members’safety involved. One of the things that happened after we started talking to…I don't know that we talked to FEMA- I don't know the organization or the department that we talked to, but we did talk to city officials in regard to this shouldn't happen again. And they brought up the fact that everyone over there actually supposedly… I don't know because I'm not a recipient of it. Supposedly bought those houses so that they could tear them down. Because they were so… so close to the flood.
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Speaker 3-Julia Daniels
14:59
Yeah, Yeah, they did. It was more than four because there was a couple of houses. Ajuba, I don't know if you remember but the house that is left across the street from you. There were a couple of houses beside that house. Do you remember those homes? When you came down Charles Street, there were two homes directly in front of you, the one set closer to the marshlands and one set directly in front of Charles Street. When you came down Charles Street, there were two homes and there was one that's left which sits on the corner where Reverend Peake used to live. 2
Speaker 2-Ajuba Joy
That's right. That's right. There were three homes up from that that were taken and two homes on the other side. And one home on the corner, Ms. Ford’s home – Mr. and Mrs Ford – their house was taken and demolished. And the City of Raleigh owns that property to my understanding. 1
Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor
16:12
Reverend Singletary… I want to invite you in as a business owner. I know your barber shop was on Garner Road. Can you speak a little bit…a little bit about your experience?
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Speaker 5-Reverend Don Singletary
16:25
Yeah, I'm the owner of Singletary Barbershop, we've been in business for about 17 years, I've been an owner for the 17 years. It was already established at that point after I purchased it. But one thing that I did not know was that it was in a flood prone area. And I purchased the business in 2005. And I think 2007, was one of the worst experiences I've had with flooding. Let me see if I can share the screen. I’ll try to do it. Now…now this…this particular picture that was taken. It's …it's not …it's… it's not the 2000 it's not the 2007 flood. But I think this is more like 2013 - can you hear me? Hello? So, this is more like 2013 in which this flood has happened. By 2013, from 2007. I almost I pretty much got like, used to coming in and cleaning up, you know, flood damage. So, with this… with this with this damage that's shown right here, um, I came in, I saw it. And then you know, I just came I just cleaned up. And after I was finished cleaning up. We just reopened back for business again. So, I think, you know, the dealing with this flood kind of taught me perseverance. I… I'm not sure who it
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was, who taught who… who was talking about how to businesses, certain businesses didn't close and stuff like that. We had to keep going. I think one of the sad things is we would never like reimbursed, we would never help with any flood flooding that have any flood damage or anything. Nobody's never really checked on those businesses. You know, that, you know, endured the flood, we, as business owners, we just kind of came together and, you know, went at it. cleaned up and opened doors back up, and you know, continue with the business. And I think that's pretty much the same way that a lot of people who have lived in the flood prone areas and still are in the flood prone areas and deal with certain flash floods that happen is you know, just the perseverance to… okay, we got to clean this place up, you know, pull out the wet vacs and, you know, whatever we can salvage and keep we'll keep and whatever we need to throw away we throw away and then the next time we'll just put it up on high. We'll put it up higher so that you know, okay, we got it. We got… we got 12 inches of flood next time we put things 12 inches higher, you know, you just kind of learn and adapt and then you're trying to overcome. And, you know, I this… this is the strength of our people just to overcome. This is why and I was blessed with that business. It was my first opportunity. I was a little hesitant about it. But you know, you know, Lord spoke to me and told me not to fret about humble beginnings, you know about what’s small, um, you know, we take care of what we have, when we try to, we try to just survive and take care of what we got what the Lord gives us. And so, you know, that's, that's, that's my story of perseverance with the barber shop… the barber shop is right next to Walnut Creek. So, I have gotten a lesson about flood prone areas, I've got a lesson about environmental justice, just by opening up a barber shop. And going through a, you know, these floods is flash…flash floods and stuff like that coming from New York. I we really…I didn't, I've never dealt with it. Moving down here. You know, I've dealt with the floods. And you know, I think God that, you know, I had to strengthen and the faith to persevere, and, you know, overcome the floods.
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Speaker 1-Reverend Jemonde Taylor
21:14
Reverend Singletary, I want to thank you for that, for sharing these pictures. And the dates you mentioned 2013, there was no hurricane in 2013. These were not terrible rain events that caused the cause flooding. And the pictures you showed… showed a decent amount of water on the floor of your business. And you mentioned that when you purchased it, you didn't know it was in a flood zone. One of the interesting things is that with a purchase of house or business, the seller does not have to disclose that it's in a flood zone. I know people who have rented apartments and bought homes, and only after the fact did, they realize it was in a flood zone, because that's not required by law to be disclosed. And you know, had you known that perhaps you wouldn't have to purchase your business. I mean, you may have any way but you know, thank you for…for your… your perseverance, and your dedication. And as you said, you've… you've had to learn a lot about wetlands and flood plains and all of these things that you perhaps rather not have. But thank you for that.
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Speaker 5-Reverend Singletary
22:39
I guess there was… there was a blessing in a storm, right?
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Speaker 1- Reverend Jemonde Taylor
22:43
The blessing from the storm.
That ends the first segment.
The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we af ectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram.
I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal.
Shalom, Salaam, Peace.
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