Diocesan priorities particularly racial reconciliation, care for creation and responding to the distress our planet is in.
Diocesan priorities particularly racial reconciliation, care for creation and responding to the distress our planet is in.
Wading Deep Podcast
Right Reverend Samuel Rodman
Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina
SPEAKERS: 2
Speaker 1–Reverend Jemonde Taylor, Rector – St. Ambrose Episcopal Church Speaker 2–Right Reverend Samuel Rodman, Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina
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Speaker 1
0:34
Podcast Introduction-This is Wading Deep, a podcast that explores the connection between environmental justice and race. I'm your host, Reverend Jemonde Taylor Rector at St. Ambrose Episcopal church, Raleigh, North Carolina, a congregation with a long history of challenging environmental racism.
I am honored to welcome as today's guest, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina, the Right Reverend Samuel Rodman, welcome, Bishop, Sam.
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Speaker 2
1:03
Thank you, Father Jemonde. It's a pleasure to be with you. And I'm excited about having conversation on this topic.
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Speaker 1
1:12
In preparing I was reviewing your diocesan priorities; you have five priorities. And it's interesting that the first listed is racial reconciliation. And another one is creation care. That's the perfect intersection. We talked about environmental racism. Could you speak about your diocesan priorities, why, at least these two are important?
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Speaker 2
1:36
Sure, these have been priorities that really emerged early on in my time here, and in some respects, were part of the discernment process, even leading up to the election, loud and clear, was a desire on the part of the people of North Carolina, to better understand, articulate and face the history around the ways that we have engaged in, unfortunately, and participate in systemic racist actions that have directly affected and impacted our…our people of color, and in particular, African American
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members of the Episcopal Church in this diocese. And we chose anti-racism work racial justice, moving towards reconciliation, but with an emphasis on justice as our first priority, because we recognize that because of the systemic nature, of the kind of patterns of racism, bias, and discrimination that permeated much of our society, and we continue to struggle with today, we needed to make that the first priority in our missional will work. Because if we didn't do that work with the intention and clarity upfront, all the other work we attempted to do, would still be, in essence, poisoned by that reality. And so, there are other priorities, as you mentioned, but one of the other of the five is creation care. And while I hope I made clear the urgency around, the work with respect to anti racism, close on its heels in terms of urgency is care for creation, because we see signs all around us of the distress that our planet is in. And if we don't respond in proactive ways to reducing our carbon footprint, to addressing the cataclysmic impact; address the cumulative impact of the abuses of creation that have been visited, visited upon the earth, by the proliferation during the Industrial Age, we're going to be continuing to struggle with the impacts of climate change. And we live that every day. And it's apparent locally as well as globally. And we know that if we don't take better care of our planet, that in fact, it's not going to be around. And we won't be able to sustain life here, let alone sustain the life of the church in the ministry and the mission that we're called to. So, these two are high priority of an urgent nature. And they are linked, as… as you know, well from your own history. So let me pause there and let you ask some other questions. 1
Speaker 1
5:17
I appreciate that Bishop Sam, thank you for laying out at least a numerating, two of the diocesan priorities that are part of the mission strategy. I'm wondering for those who perhaps are not in the church, why is it important for Christians to care about such things? Creation, care, racial reconciliation, and maybe for those who are even in the church may even ask, you know, why are these important? You know, is there any theological basis for that.
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Speaker 2
5:49
So there definitely is a theological basis, a biblical, more than an invitation really, I would use the word imperative. And, first and foremost, all of our priorities are under the umbrella, if you will, or under the banner is probably a better word of Becoming Beloved Community. And one of the fundamental elements of Beloved Community is recognizing as we do, and it's embedded in our theology, that every person is made in God's image, and therefore, every person is sacred and holy, as a child of God. Racist racism and, and white supremacy, are exactly counter to this understanding of who we are as human beings and as God's children. And so, where we experienced expressions of racism, and white supremacy, the church needs to be prepared not only to speak out, but to take action. And this is clearly in keeping with the teachings of Christ. It's clearly in keeping with the way of… of love that he not only articulated but embodied in his teachings and his healing in his life here on Earth, we are trying to be faithful disciples, and following that example, and his call, but also in paying attention to the importance of justice, as a part of the reconciliation process, if there isn't truth, telling about our own history, just as in confession for the individual. If we don't own our
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responsibility for our actions, and ask forgiveness, and amendment of life, then we don't really enter into the full potentiality of change in the context of God's loving grace, the same invitation exists for us as a body, as a community, or as an organization or an institution, that work is harder because it's systemic, and it's multi layered. But it's the same process, we have to tell the truth about our history, we have to own our responsibility, we then have to live into an active engagement in amendment of
life, to ask God's forgiveness, and the forgiveness of those who have been harmed, and move ourselves and or our organization or, in this case, the body of the church in a different direction. So, it's deeply biblical as his creation care. We know well, from the very earliest days of the Genesis story that we have been made by the gift and the grace of God's stewards of creation, and in order to be faithful stewards. And by the way, as we both recognize, that means we don't own anything in this world, but we are responsible for the care and the upkeep and the good Stewardship of Creation. And some have understood this in a way that I think, has been interpreted as we have the right to dominate creation and to use it for our purposes. But that doesn't resonate for me with the biblical record, and the invitation to really care for creation, because it is the source of our well-being and our lives on a day to day, day to day basis on this earth are dependent on our care for the earth and its resources. So solid, biblical background for these two priorities that are linked in the work that you're doing at Saint Ambrose.
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Speaker 1
9:46
Yeah, I want to zero in on that term dominate and I think that really is an important word. When we think about both, we said, Becoming Beloved Community, racial recognition, anti-white supremacy work and Creation Care. What we can say is that one of the operations of white supremacy is to dominate. Whether it's to dominate human bodies, i.e., enslaving people, or committing genocide against indigenous people, or to dominate space to control land. He ravaging the environment is what we see in the history of Saint Ambrose is an attempt to dominate. If we go back to our founding in 1868, and a neighborhood in Raleigh called Smokey Hollow. That is where freed black people, free people of color, live during the institution of slavery. It was called Smokey Hollow because it was near the train depot. And the constant noxious gases from the train smoke pervaded the area. And even though we don't have medical data, we could assume reasonably that respiratory disease and illness was higher there than in other parts of Raleigh, where there was fresh air. But because the area was low lying, and it was always smoke around, the majority population had no desire to live there. So, they didn't. And it was a place where black people could live. So that intersection between environmental racism and environmental injustice, racial, racism and environmental injustice, and then you look at Saint Ambrose third location in Rochester Heights, the area zoned for black people to live by the city council in 1956, during segregation is in Walnut Creek Wetland area, where the city of Raleigh dump raw sewage for 70 years, and was a de facto dumping ground, again, an undesirable place for the majority or the white community to live. And yet, this is the place zoned for black people to live. So, in our history, two of our three locations have been in places that have been negatively impacted by human beings on the environment. And one could even argue that our second location, which was at Wilmington, and Cabarrus Street, in the third ward area, near Shaw University, the land on which we built the church, when we moved, it was a place where a tobacco
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barn and warehouse stood for years and burned. So, it could be described even at the second location as a place of environmental injustice that this this was not a desirable place where the larger majority population wanted to live. And yet, this is where the church was located. So, I think that intersection
of trying to dominate humans, i.e., racism, trying to dominate the environment, i.e., neglect of creation care work together. And it is that domination that we see as the operation of white supremacy. So, thank you for lifting up domination.
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Speaker 2
13:16
Yeah, and I think that history that you share, and that tragic tale, unfortunately, is repeated again, and again, as you know, in other contexts, and drawing, connecting the dots, using the word domination to connect the dots, I think, underscores what too often has been the result of discrimination, white supremacist attitudes and actions and the way that governments through zoning, or markets through real estate, have participated and capitulated in that kind of discrimination that has multilayered impacts, and as you pointed out, are clearly dominating the land dominating people. And visiting abuses, both of creation and of humanity is…is a part of the… the really painful and difficult history that we are trying to look at and face into as a diocese now, and to recognize, even with the church has had a hand in that. I do think that as far as the work that we're committed to doing that, as awful as that journey that you've described, is, as we look ahead, we're looking for ways to create a different path and to chart a different way forward and to through our creative dreams and imagination like you and your team. To actually create a different journey for God's people, and especially for the people of this community that you serve so well. So, I think that's one of the exciting things about the initiative that you received the grant for.
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Speaker 1
15:17
It is exciting. And when I think about the work of ministry of Saint Ambrose, it is the ministry of resurrection. And we as Christians are all called to the ministry of resurrection, through our baptism, and the gift of the Holy Spirit, when I think about Walnut Creek Wetlands, which before European engagement was pristine. When I think about going from there to being a dumping ground for sewage, dumping ground for…for garbage to it being zone as a place for black people to live, even though it was floodplain prone, it's a wetland. And then I look at the people who were the residents, who are the residents, those black people, partnering with the city and nonprofits, to help restore the wetland. And now with this grant, we see the environment, helping serve to heal the very community that helped give the wetlands life again. And I think that's just an interesting art from pristine to devastation, to restoration, not by the people who devastated but by people who have been devastated themselves. And now that the wetland is being restored, it is the wetland itself, that is helping to be a healing agent through horticulture therapy, through the spiritual path of the labyrinth, to bring healing both emotionally, mentally and physically, to the residents, who happen to be black people and people of color. I think that that's the that's certainly a Christian story. And that's a biblical story. And it's a story of resurrection.
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Speaker 2
17:11
Yeah, and it matches. And I love the way you frame that. For me going back to the biblical record. If you start in the garden, where… where were God's children, were walking with God, that's literally, you know, the story tells God spent every evening walking with Adam and Eve, until after the fall, and God's deep desire is to walk with all of us. That's God's children and for that intimate connection and conversation and movement together. And then after the disobedience and the fall, and, and the chaos that ensued, and the sinfulness that really dominates the human story and our human history, and the kinds of abuses and discriminations we've been talking about, to have people that were really bearing the brunt of some of this discriminatory and destructive behavior, turn around and redeem the land which had been abused by those that took the land without any right. And… and then have that land have the power to restore others, is a very compelling story of not just resurrection, and resilience, but redemption in the deepest sense of the word. And I love the fact that part of your vision is that walking in this space, you know, that's been restored and, and redeem, becomes literally, in some respects, a return to that garden, that holy place where God's presence is lifted up and made available to all and in inviting people into the experience of God's creations power to heal us. I think all of us have had experience of, of the healing power of creation in different forms, and whether it's just the inspiration of, of the landscape and the beauty of God's creation, feeding our souls, or whether it's in other more specific practical ways of nurturing the land and benefiting from some of the produce of the land, some of it that has medicinal value, or whether it's just the actual act of walking in sacred spaces that have been carved out of the land, in a life giving way as part of our prayer and meditation that strengthens body, mind, soul, One Spirit all at the same time. All of those are elements of the offering that you are giving back to this community in spite of the journey that you were, in essence, forced to follow in the earlier days. And that speaks with incredible power, about your witness and your faithfulness, and the way that you are raising up the gift of hope and redemption for all of us.
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Speaker 1
20:31
You're absolutely right, Bishop, I appreciate that. And maybe we should call our prayer garden Eden, it did not occur to me before this conversation, but perhaps we should call it Eden. It's clear that you have a passion for racial reconciliation for creation care. And I know you said these priorities came from conversations throughout the diocese, and yet that resonated with something deep inside you. How did you get involved or have passion concerning racial reconciliation and creation care? Where did you have a formative story from early life or something in your path past that really pushed you in that direction?
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Speaker 2
21:14
I think so. And some of it really came out of my family experience. It was deeply ingrained in. In me…me and my sisters growing up. My parents in particular, had a real passion for fairness. And that may sound simplistic, but the reality was that very early on in the civil rights movement, they
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were very clear that things needed to change. My father at one point even contemplated going to Alabama during some of the race, the… the marches, that were to take a stand against the racism that was being expressed there and being in violent ways visited upon people of color. In addition, just to at home, there was always a real clarity, that everyone was a child of God that everyone should be treated the same, and everyone should have equal access to resources, to opportunities, and to gifts. And so that was kind of the bedrock foundation. And I think that formed me at an early and an early time in my life in a way that, wherever, along my journey, there were instances where I was awakened to injustice, unfairness, mistreatment, or abuse of any form. I was prepared by those early formative years, to speak out to take a stand, and to be willing to take action on behalf and with those who were being either marginalized, mistreated, neglected, or abused. And so that it is fundamental. And it's deeply connected to my faith. That's always been a part of, for me, the Christian journey and what it means to walk the way of Jesus, and to walk in the way of love.
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Speaker 1
23:30
What gives you hope, these days?
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Speaker 2
23:34
There are a lot of things that give me hope. And sometimes I get accused of being, you know, always a little bit too optimistic and the glass half full. But there are several things that give me hope, from the story that you tell. One is that even people who have been on the receiving end of really abusive treatment and discriminatory treatment, do not let that define who they are. When people choose their own identity as children of God, anything becomes possible, and it doesn't matter. In the long run, it doesn't matter what is said or done in terms of defining them because they have already chosen to define themselves in a way that has more power, more capacity, and also bears witness to what… what our faith teaches us. And the people of St. Ambrose embody that spirit. It is a gift of the Holy Spirit. And they have embraced that fully in the way that they've engaged not just in this particular initiative with the creation and using your work in the environment to redeem, both place but also redeem an earlier time. But you all are doing that work day in and day out and the other ways that you connect with and partner with the community. One of our other priorities is collaboration and you are deeply connected in partnerships in the neighborhood. And in Raleigh, and in and beyond, I really in Wake County, you're taking a leadership role and Wake One, which helps bring the community together around issues, including in affordable housing, and access to jobs and proper wages. These are other expressions of God's justice, that give me hope, that you all are providing leadership for and that speak to the priorities that we've discerned together, are God's priority for our mission at this time, in the diocese, above and beyond that, I think there's a connection between your worship and your life of prayer, and your resiliency and your activism and bearing witness. And you live that out in a powerful way. Whenever I'm with you for a visitation. The richness of your worship strengthens all of us to do the work that God has given us to do. And there's always direct connection between worship and active service in the world. And that, that is part of what makes the church it's
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part of the unique gift that we have to offer to the world. And you all as a congregation and as a community have been living that out faithfully for many decades. And it's very evident in the work that you're doing today.
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Speaker 1
26:54
Thank you so much, Bishop Sam. It's been an honor to have the Right Reverend Samuel Rodman, Bishop Diocesan for the Episcopal Diocese of North Carolina. It's been a good conversation. Thank you.
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Speaker 2
27:09
Thank you, Jemonde, and I continue to be grateful for your leadership and for the great work of Saint Ambrose. And for your prayer and, and your witness.
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Speaker 1
27:22
Podcast Outro
The Wading Deep podcast comes to you from a place we af ectionately call The Brose, Saint Ambrose Episcopal Church, Raleigh, North Carolina. Follow us on Facebook, YouTube, The BroseNC on Twitter and TheBrose1868 on Instagram.
I am your host, the Reverend Jemonde Taylor. God is going to trouble the water of environmental racism, resurrecting a river of life clear as crystal.
Shalom, Salaam, Peace.
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